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“More faces than Mount Rushmore” – Microsoft’s about turn? No alliance with Russian Government?

I refer readers back to my article only a few days ago, where in reference to what I perceived as the “two-faced” Microsoft, I said:

Microsoft, you’ve got to love them, they’ve got more faces than Mount Rushmore….

You can read the rest of that article here.

After reports of Microsoft allegedly aiding the Russian Police in quelling dissent, albeit under the guise of anti-piracy, it now appears that if the allegation was true, Microsoft has changed its mind.

Microsoft are reported to have issued the following statements after the New York Times broke the story which subsequently spread around the Internet on numerous blogs and sites.

Over on the official Microsoft Blog, the following was said in relation to the whole incident:

A story in yesterday’s New York Times reports on anti-piracy enforcement actions in Russia that have been used for more nefarious purposes than protecting intellectual property rights.

As General Counsel for Microsoft, it was not the type of story that felt good to read….

I’m sure it wasnt, but then again there’s many a story about Microsoft that doesn’t feel good to read.  I could cite Plurk incident as one that springs to mind or how about the regular exploits of Windows? however this is about Microsoft and the Russian authorities, so lets move on:

Whatever the circumstances of the particular cases the New York Times described, we want to be clear that we unequivocally abhor any attempt to leverage intellectual property rights to stifle political advocacy….

Which I think should have ended with “if we are exposed”   …maybe?

One thing Microsoft does have to get credit for is one of the first times I’ve seen an allegation made against them where Microsoft doesn’t say “Microsoft blames….”  this time around Microsoft says:

We must accept responsibility and assume accountability for our anti-piracy work

but then again, what could they say?  I wonder, had this story not gone viral, would we be reading that blog post at all?

To prevent non-government organizations from falling victim to nefarious actions taken in the guise of anti-piracy enforcement, Microsoft will create a new unilateral software license for NGOs that will ensure they have free, legal copies of our products.

Let’s be fair though, you are not going to make much money from such groups anyway and the bad publicity of further “anti-piracy” enforcement would just do more harm to your image.

Microsoft report that they are having an independent investigation into this “incident” but go on to say:

We don’t, however, want simply to wait for the outcome of this review.

Which I believe shows that this is now an exercise in damage control as Microsoft did not envisage a situation where the story would become so big.

Too little too late Microsoft, these new licenses should have been in place years ago if you really are pro-NGO.

Visit the Microsoft Blog to see the above quotes in context.

So what are people thinking?  I’ve given my opinions on what I consider is happening here, but lets take a look at Computer World, where they have taken a different view to me.  You can read that article here. What I would like to consider further though are some of the comments by readers:

Yes, that would make a good carrot and stick. Once all the NGOs in the world are dependent on Microsoft’s software and the pesky Free Software is marginalized Microsoft can reap their harvest, year after year after year. So what’s good for Microsoft is bad for everyone else.

and

….Start throwing money and licenses in every direction to show what “good guys” they are. Same ol same ol from Microsoft.

and

Those NGOs wouldn’t have been raided if they hadn’t spent “some of their extremely limited funds” on Microsoft. They got kicked in the teeth for using Microsoft.

and it should be noted that apparently the NGO’s in question DID have Microsoft licenses for their software.

The bad feeling continues:

The company remained blind to its actions in Russia for months until the New York Times ran a major investigative piece. Yes, we should be happy that Microsoft has finally done the right thing. But if you read the article knowing this outcome, you’d be even more appalled that the company hadn’t acted sooner. Your effusive praise is mis-placed and in essence, the rest of your comments amount to nothing more than a news release from corporate headquarters.

I’ll leave you to make your own mind up, damage control or decent gesture? I know where I’d put my money.  One thing seems certain though, in the eyes of many, Microsoft’s “efforts” in respect of this recent incident, really don’t count for much.

Goblin – bytes4free@googlemail.com

If you are new to this blog (or have not yet read it) please take time to view the OpenBytes statement, here.

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About Tim Sparrow

Online tech writer, novelist/author of sci-fi literature and co-host of the TechBytes Show! I believe in multi-culturism & diversity. Luton Town FC supporter.

Discussion

36 thoughts on ““More faces than Mount Rushmore” – Microsoft’s about turn? No alliance with Russian Government?

  1. Even though my personal opinion is that the Russian government and Microsoft Russia were doing this without telling Redmond, I don’t think it matters whether Redmond was aware of what their Russian office was doing or not. In either case, it’s done damage to their reputation, and the the company has responded. That they’ve responded by doing an EDGI on NGO’s is to be expected.

    What I would be really interested in knowing, is whether or not any of the NGO’s in question were running Linux, and were still charged with pirating Microsoft software. While I have no proof that this happened, it would be an expected outcome based on my previous predictions, and statements by both Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates. Remember the statement because [otherwise] we believe every Linux customer basically has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability?

    Posted by The Mad Hatter | September 15, 2010, 11:27 pm
    • Ive always loved that “balance sheet” comment.

      I must owe Redmond quite a bit of money then since Ive deployed Linux to many people.

      Oh well….they will just have to sue me. I’ll see them in court.

      Posted by openbytes | September 17, 2010, 8:48 pm
  2. If Microsoft started offering free life-saving surgery for patients too poor to pay, you’d probably have it headlined under “Microsoft pads fat-cat hospital pocketbooks”. I guess there’s nothing that they can do right, is there? Even when it looks like a completely noble, altruistic gesture, OpenBytes will assume it’s “spin”, “PR”, “damage control”, etc …

    … all of which will be picked up by Techrights, and touted as fact. How’s the echo chamber working out for you, Goblin? Is it comfortable in your fantasy-world of paranoia and bias?

    Posted by Richard | September 17, 2010, 9:09 pm
  3. Quote “If Microsoft started offering free life-saving surgery for patients too poor to pay, you’d probably have it headlined under “Microsoft pads fat-cat hospital pocketbooks””

    Thanks for trying to predict what I would say. Lets see Microsoft actually do that, then see what I actually type.

    What do you think you are doing? Playing Minority Report and accusing me of things I haven’t yet done?

    Quote “I guess there’s nothing that they can do right, is there?”

    Guess again. MS flight Sim they did right for starters, infact I remember saying at the time of its withdrawl that its the one MS product which I saw with a genuine passionate following who were very upset that it was stopped.

    I recommended an XP netbook to another user on Twitter, so in that instance they did that right too. I recommend proprietary and FOSS solution they are the best for me.

    Quote “… all of which will be picked up by Techrights, and touted as fact.”

    In respect as touted as fact I would respond that in all the trackbacks/quotes Ive seen, its very clear its what I am saying….and in respect of “being picked up” you can add:

    Lloyd Law, Distro Watch, Tux Machine FS Daily to that list. To my knowledge nobody quotes me as fact and nor should they. Its my opinion, Im judged by the people reading it.

    Posted by openbytes | September 17, 2010, 9:27 pm
  4. I should also add and ask the question, what paranoia. Unlike you Richard, I consider my posts/responses. Even though its made very clear this blog is MY opinion, I also use words like “Maybe” or IF. Take a look at this article as an example:

    “Which I think should have ended with “if we are exposed” …maybe?”

    Notice the words “Which I think” and “maybe”…I even give options to the reader when Im expressing my own opinion.

    I repeatedly put in COLA that the “traditional” trolls are NOT paid by Microsoft. Want to comment about when I challenged a company on Twitter pimping Microsoft stock? Remember what happened? It transpired that it was someone fraudulently using that companies name in order to do it. The company which was the victim even thanked me publically for exposing the imposter.

    Remember when I said there was a Microsoft MVP nymshifting on my blog? Not only did I provide evidence (screen grabs of IP) but I even had a admition from the person concerned. Paranoia? Infact what exactly am I paranoid about? Since you like to try and speak for me, maybe you can tell everyone what I am paranoid about?

    Posted by openbytes | September 17, 2010, 10:05 pm
    • You liked Flight Sim, so that makes you an unbiased commenter, does it? Is this like “I can’t be racist, ‘cos I like Will Smith”?

      I understand quite well that it’s all your opinion. The obvious reading seems too simple to you, so you’ve built a web of lies and deceit and PR-spin and assumed-motivation on top of it. It’s all in your imagination, of course: you don’t have a shred of evidence for any of your opinions (but that’s why they’re “opinions”, or should I say “smears”, isn’t that right?).

      And oh, over the YEARS that this blog has been going, you’ve got a handful of cases where people tried to deceive you! Yes, that’s good cause for your paranoia. I wouldn’t try to justify it if I were you. It just makes you look even more paranoid.

      Posted by Richard | September 18, 2010, 9:11 am
      • As I asked before about the paranoia you claimed (and have never managed to evidence – since exposing someone who was engaged in wrong doing is not paranoia, is it?) also, I repeatedly say both here and COLA that the anti-social posters are NOT Microsoft related…I would also ask you to cite any lies that I’ve claimed about Microsoft, I’ve given my opinions and put questions….and I even offer an alternative to my view. Please example just one dishonest post and then why not refer it to Microsoft where they can take me to court. I’m ready, if Microsoft is. Reality is, Microsoft wouldn’t be reading this blog, you are and it seems have taken the role of apologists or defender of them. I’m sure if Microsoft had a case I would hear from their representatives not a person who thinks a joke between myself and madhatter is an example of prejudice.

        Having said that, its nice to have you commenting again.

        Kindest regards
        Goblin

        Posted by openbytes | September 18, 2010, 3:23 pm
        • And just to clarify the MS Flightsim point. No..I never owned it, I believe I may have played it once at a friends house. The reason I gave praise in the case of Flightsim was by the reaction I observed from its users when the product was stopped.

          In the case of Flightsim, its users love the software (even now) and were very upset when it was shelved. Thats customer satisfaction. Thats something which should be praised.

          Posted by openbytes | September 18, 2010, 5:56 pm
        • “…if Microsoft had a case I would hear from their representatives”? Um, Goblin, you run a third-rate echo-chamber that gets mentioned a few times each year in slightly-more-respectable places. Don’t get a big head about how important you are in the scheme of things. Did you mistake yourself for Slashdot? Or Reddit? Or Digg? You’re not even as popular as “The Old New Thing”. I’m quite sure that Microsoft has bigger fish to fry.

          As for pointing out dishonesty, well, let’s give you an exercise. Go through your article, and pick out the FACTS. In other words, remove all speculation, opinion, and hypothesis, whether written by you or quoted from another site. Now look at all the things that you’ve taken out. Out in the real world, that’s what we call “wild speculation”, or sometimes just “pure slander”. And no, Microsoft isn’t going to be suing you for it. You’re a small fish in a small pond, and I doubt they’d do more than chuckle indulgently at you over at Microsoft Legal.

          By the way, no matter how proud you are about MVPs occasionally dropping in, let’s recognize that the majority of the commenters are your own personal fanboys: Hatter, Chips, and so on. Post some statistics about who the most frequent commenters are, if you want to dispute that.

          Posted by Richard | September 18, 2010, 10:02 pm
          • Quote “Um, Goblin, you run a third-rate echo-chamber that gets mentioned a few times each year in slightly-more-respectable places.”

            So why do you come here? Why does my readership continue to grow and in respect of “comments” theres plenty of bigger sites that get alot less. Conversation is good (in most cases) however I write because I enjoy it. Apparently, so do the people who return time and time again, yourself included. Lets see some of your work eh?

            Quote “Did you mistake yourself for Slashdot? Or Reddit? ”

            No and no, however if your theory of “comments” is any indicator of readership, then Im far bigger than Microsoft-watch.com, since I have many more comments than them.

            Quote “Go through your article, and pick out the FACTS. ”

            No Richard, you said made an implication my posts were dishonest, I reiterated (and you seemed to understand) that they were my opinion… Lets take this article for example….we dont know what Microsoft knew or didn’t know, thats why I say:

            Quote “I’ll leave you to make your own mind up, damage control or decent gesture?”

            Which I follow up with an implication of MY VIEW:

            Quote “I know where I’d put my money.”

            When and if the real facts are proven, I’ll write about them too.

            Lets consider the article before that..Piracy bill…the facts are what the MP said (I quoted them) and then I give my opinions…..beginning to see how this works? I even state that there is another article (and link), which differs in opinion from mine, I don’t discredit it, I stand by MY opinion and highlight an alternative one to readers…..

            Richard,

            Quote “By the way, no matter how proud you are about MVPs occasionally dropping in, let’s recognize that the majority of the commenters are your own personal fanboys: Hatter, Chips, and so on. Post some statistics about who the most frequent commenters are, if you want to dispute that.”

            Quote “Out in the real world, that’s what we call “wild speculation””

            Really? So thats what you would call the New York Times article too? Fair enough.

            I don’t dispute that (but then thanks for the compliment because by that token then, as I say above, I must get more readers than MS-watch since they have fewer commenters than me), read the About Goblin section where it says clearly enough even for you:

            “The site was created to act as a better forum for me to challenge others opinion and to highlight the experiences Ive had since I moved from a Microsoft dependency. I suppose the MSWatch site is to thank for that where I met many people in the comments section who would do anything to dismiss the idea that there were alternatives to Microsoft products and inspired me to create this “blogazine”.

            Ive made many online friends over the years and Openbytes is also a place for me to discuss with them. ”
            https://openbytes.wordpress.com/about-goblin/

            And just to reiterate so I know you understand:

            Quote “Ive made many online friends over the years and Openbytes is also a place for me to discuss with them”

            WordPress doesn’t give stats for commenters….yet and you have obviously spent alot of time here, Chips rarely comments, so to know that you would have had to be reading a while….small fish in a small pond that you apparently cant get enough of.

            Thanks, I sincerely appreciate that.

            And finally:

            Quote “You’re a small fish in a small pond, and I doubt they’d do more than chuckle indulgently at you over at Microsoft Legal.”

            So why do you bother coming here and typing all that text eh Richard? If this is a small pond and this small fish is only writing to one or two friends, why on earth do you come here? Also why can’t you be specific with what you disagree with in my writing? Easy, its because a generic “complaint” is far harder to counter from my point of view. If you were to cite exact examples (which Ive asked numerous times) I could respond, but its alot more difficult to answer a more general “allegation”…

            You’ve nearly cracked it Richard, shame that your little tricks won’t wash with me. Ive seen them all before (and Im not talking about on Openbytes)

            Oh and it would be nice to think Microsoft legal had a chuckle at this site. Although I wonder what readers/microsoft customers would think if MS legal was indeed chuckling at some of the Microsoft “incidents” I cover here.

            I am still waiting for you to cite examples of mine Richard….

            Best of British,

            Tim.

            Posted by openbytes | September 19, 2010, 12:06 am
            • You’re bigger than Microsoft-Watch.com? That’s a plus, I guess, if you want to compare yourself to a single-issue smear-site. But you don’t have as many unique visitors as lolcats.com, so I suppose that makes you less entertaining than a bunch of awkward felines (no offence, Pussycat Dolls).

              Your opinion is framed in the same way that Glenn Beck’s is: you take some fact, then attempt to disguise your slurs as questions about that fact. I guess he is also proud of having a large enough viewership; the rest of us tend to view that viewership as a bunch of morons, and Beck as a slimy manipulator of the uninformed. Is he your role-model, by any chance? Or is there some British version of him that isn’t quite as infamous? Are you deliberately trying to become King of Idiots in your particular niche?

              Curious minds want to know.

              Posted by Richard | September 19, 2010, 8:06 am
              • Quote “You’re bigger than Microsoft-Watch.com?”

                I wouldn’t know, its you who made inference to the comments having a relationship to the readerbase.

                Quote “so I suppose that makes you less entertaining than a bunch of awkward felines”

                I wouldn’t know. As I say above, if that is true, what does that make you?

                Quote “Your opinion is framed in the same way that Glenn Beck’s is: you take some fact, then attempt to disguise your slurs as questions about that fact”

                Thanks for that. You still can’t be specific can you?

                Quote “Is he your role-model, by any chance?”

                No and I haven’t had a role model since I was about 12. I hope thats the case for you too. If you would like to know the person who I have the most respect for……… ask. As I repeatedly try to teach you, be specific, we can have a debate. BTW Who is Glenn Beck? – Maybe I know them under their handle….but I can’t recall who Glenn is. Sorry.

                Quote “Or is there some British version of him that isn’t quite as infamous? ”

                As above, tell me who he is, I’ll let you know.

                Quote “Are you deliberately trying to become King of Idiots in your particular niche?”

                Are you? I wouldn’t know. Unlike you, I’d rather let others decide that. Its only you who’s ever said that over the last two years of Openbytes.

                What are you “King” of? its certainly not being a quality counter to anything Ive said. Mind you, I’ll be here for a long time, so there plenty of time for you to practice…..in the meantime, thankyou for being a loyal subject.

                Rise Sir Richard….this Kings got to put his tin foil crown on ;)

                Royally yours,

                Tim.

                Posted by openbytes | September 19, 2010, 8:31 am
                • You don’t know who Glenn Beck is…?!

                  Here, let me help you out. https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Glenn+Beck . There are over 18 million results, he’s been on the cover of global magazines, he’s a meme on the internet, there are several spoof sites dedicated to him, he’s … wow, you really don’t know, do you? Do you live in a cave somewhere? Or do you just never talk to anyone with an interest in world affairs? Have you also never heard of the Pope, or Silvio Berlusconi?

                  Go and look it up, dearie. I think you’ll quite like him. He’s a magnificent specimen of trollery; you could pick up a few lessons from him.

                  Posted by Richard | September 19, 2010, 8:44 am
                  • Current affairs, yes, I keep up with them, my job requires it…..following commenters reporters or anyone else….like I say, The name does not ring any bells..:..so what?.

                    Posted by openbytes | September 19, 2010, 5:36 pm
                  • This may come as a shock, but an American journalist who happens to be controversial is not essential following for someone in the UK….having said that, after your role model claim failed this is all you have left.

                    Posted by openbytes | September 19, 2010, 5:40 pm
                  • Richard must be an American. I didn’t know who Glen Beck was either, until I heard an American friend cursing him. I’ve never seen him on TV, but I gather he’s a polarizing figure. You either love him, or hate him.

                    At least if you know about him. Me, I don’t know about him, and I don’t really care.

                    Posted by The Mad Hatter | September 20, 2010, 1:22 am
          • By the way, no matter how proud you are about MVPs occasionally dropping in, let’s recognize that the majority of the commenters are your own personal fanboys: Hatter, Chips, and so on. Post some statistics about who the most frequent commenters are, if you want to dispute that.

            Oh, I’m sooooo hurt!

            Posted by The Mad Hatter | September 19, 2010, 12:34 am
      • Tim may have liked Flight sim, I thought it was pretty lame myself. Flight Gear is better, if you are into that sort of thing.

        Me, I prefer 4X games, there’s nothing like genocide in the morning.

        Posted by The Mad Hatter | September 18, 2010, 9:50 pm
  5. For those who haven’t seen Richard before, yes, he’s always this way.

    And yes, Goblin is a lot more patient and kind than I am. It’s one of his worst faults.

    Posted by The Mad Hatter | September 19, 2010, 12:36 am
    • lol…thanks, I think!

      I like it when Richard makes an appearance I just wish he would learn to debate properly and be specific…

      Richard if you are reading think let me help you, next time you want to disagree, why not instead of a generalization why not be specific? and do it in relation to the article at hand. Heres a tip:

      “Tim, I disagree with XYZ because ………”

      Everyone else manages that. Myself and Mad Hatter have many a debate about subjects we have different views on, the difference there though is that we debate like adults and we respect each others opinions even though we disagree. Mad Hatter even wrote an article about me being wrong. Did I mind? of course not, it was an excellent article and we had a cracking debate because of it. Who was right? That’s up to the readers to decide.

      Why can’t Richard do that? – Maybe because unlike others Richard really doesn’t have an argument to put forward? If Richard is telling the truth and this is a blog which very few read (stats dispute that) then what does that make Richard? A chap who spends time keeping tabs on my online friends and commenting on a blog that nobody reads with attempts to cheapen. What sort of individual would do that?

      What really is going on here?

      So to everyone else reading this, I apologize if you take offense at me discussing issues with my online friends on my own blog.

      Im off now to put my tin foil hat on and have a morning of paranoia…. ;)………now wheres my article on aliens in Area 51……….;)

      Posted by openbytes | September 19, 2010, 7:00 am
      • “I just wish he would learn to debate properly and be specific”?

        Goblin, you crack me up. Really, tears of laughter over here. You don’t know the first thing about debating, you wouldn’t recognize a well-constructed argument if it bit you on the bottom, and you consider “opinion” to be just as important as fact! Not to mention your background in COLA (a fine bunch of bigoted trolls as ever I’ve seen), and the prejudice towards Microsoft that you’re not even bothering to hide nowadays. You’re apparently against “the underhanded practices of some proprietary companies” … but let’s just drop the charade and admit that that’s a code-phrase for “Microsoft”. Otherwise, wouldn’t we have seen an article about Oracle? Or didn’t you pick up the fact that they’re suing as many open platforms as they can, and dropping support for as many open technologies as possible?

        Dear, dear me! Goblin, if I haven’t made it clear before, let me do so now. It’s pointless to debate anything with you. You’re a troll. Trolls are there for the general public to poke at and to ridicule. I’m part of the general public, and you’re fun. Poke, little troll, poke!

        Posted by Richard | September 19, 2010, 8:24 am
        • Quote “Goblin, you crack me up. Really, tears of laughter over here.”

          Im pleased…I know you are a regular reader. If my writing entertains you then thats good.

          Quote “you wouldn’t recognize a well-constructed argument if it bit you on the bottom”

          Non-specific again and you’ve certainly not exhibited any behaviour like that so really you are no person to make comment. The big name sites that link to my articles don’t seem to think that though do they?

          Quote “Not to mention your background in COLA (a fine bunch of bigoted trolls as ever I’ve seen)”

          Background in COLA? Infrequent posting and a decent conversation in the last week with a person who is alleged to be a Wintroll? Im refering to Moshe Goldfarb and my decent conversation with him….I even tried to suggest to the group as a whole to start treating people with courtesy in an effort to stop the amount of bickering. Of course I don’t have the luxury of infrequently posting on my own blog since people like you with non-specific and “muddy” claims come here (and at the same time claim nobody reads it)

          You’ve certainly though got a thing for me. You know my online friends, you know where I post and you appear to have been reading Openbytes for a long time. I’m flattered.

          Quote “You’re apparently against “the underhanded practices of some proprietary companies” … but let’s just drop the charade and admit that that’s a code-phrase for “Microsoft””

          Your words not mine. Any proprietary company or indeed any company is capable of underhanded tactics. I can write about any ones I choose. So in answer to your question no…its not code for Microsoft.

          Quote “Otherwise, wouldn’t we have seen an article about Oracle?”

          Very good point. I write as time permits on a basis of how much coverage I see the subject getting. Conversely why didn’t I write about Verizon not selling Windows 7 Mobile at launch? If Im that “anti-microsoft” as you would seem to suggest, surely I would have had an article on that the day it was announced…..Doh….now look what you’ve made me do…

          Quote ” It’s pointless to debate anything with you. You’re a troll. Trolls are there for the general public to poke at and to ridicule.”

          Good effort. So why on earth spend time writing paragraphs of text? You are entitled to an opinion (thats why I don’t censor/moderate) and its up to the readers to decide. How can I be a troll when its you coming here with a non-argument and attempts at insults?

          Quote “I’m part of the general public, and you’re fun. Poke, little troll, poke!”

          You sound like youre getting a little frustrated……say the “poke” word enough it might make you feel better.

          I won’t stoop to your level and just end with this. I can’t say I disagree with your views because you won’t cite any of my material specifically you have a problem with. You won’t debate and its obvious to me why. You claim to come here for fun yet you also make all sort of inference that nobody reads whilst you try (badly) to ridicule. Who’s the troll here and what sort of person are you? – If I had those feelings about a site or opinion I simply wouldn’t visit. You do and seem to be quite thorough when collecting knowledge about me, my friends and my online presence. As I said before, thanks for your loyalty, Im complimented.

          “To be loved is great, to be hated is great, its indifference thats the killer”
          - Ric Flair from his book “To be the man”

          Posted by openbytes | September 19, 2010, 8:58 am
          • Wooo! Sup, fucker? Sorry I’m late to the party. I spent a week in Hong Kong but now I’m ready to rock. Let’s get right into it….

            Richard, I’m glad you brought up COLA! The only people using newsgroups today are niggers and pedophiles. What’s a dedicated Linux disciple to do? Start a blog and take the arguments on the web. The arena is different but the tactics are the same. This fat fuck does nothing but run in circles arguing every little minute fucking detail until you give up or shoot yourself in the face. Don’t let that tubby bastard get the best of you. Give him just a little poke then giggle when he squirts out 8 paragraphs.

            Posted by Robotron 2084 | September 19, 2010, 5:54 pm
  6. Real men blog.

    Posted by Robotron 2084 | September 19, 2010, 6:36 pm

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