Hitting the F-Spot – New version a day after its dumping?

Its been reported in the last few days that F-Spot is to be removed from Ubuntu 10.10 and after some poor reports about its inclusion (and its Mono dependency) it comes as little surprise that it’s to be booted out the ‘buntu.

Taken from here:

F-Spot has been voted off the island by developers at UDS this week……..Since the only other Mono application I see in the default install is Tomboy, would it make sense to conspire to kick Tomboy Notes off the show next week and Mono off the CD the following episode?

No wait! There’s that “fantastic” piece of coding Gbrainy, which you may have missed!!!?!?! and there’s also Tomboy, which advocates would imply is irreplaceable! – In all seriousness though, if F-Spot is for the chop, is the justification for Canonical (or indeed any other distro provider) diminishing to continue slapping the rather large Mono runtime and associated “warez” into the default packaging?

In the meantime though, F-Spot devs have just announced a new version.  Taken from the maintainers website:

After a long period of silence, it is my pleasure to announce that a new version of F-Spot has been released: 0.6.2.

and I think its safe to say that as far as Canonical is concerned, F-spot can keep its new version (and pleasures?!) to itself.

When we also look at impending doom that Novell is reported to be rushing towards, the future for the “gift to the world” is all rather in doubt. Here are some of the articles:

http://linuxinstall.net/linux_news/2010/3/2/novell-could-be-sold.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10462892-16.html

http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/enderle/novell-for-sale-another-sco-moment-coming/?cs=39830

So the only other question, is this new release of F-Spot a coincidence?  Was it intended as a last ditch attempt to give F-Spot a stay of execution on Ubuntu?

One translator had this to say on the maintainers blog:

Just one hint, when releasing software, try to give, at least, one-two weeks to translators so they can properly translate the software. And of course, warn them.

I’ll let you decide.

And more from the Official Mono page (re: Mono):

A growing family of solutions and an active and enthusiastic contributing community is helping position Mono to become the leading choice for development of Linux applications.

Except that arguably the leading Linux distro has stated its to remove one of them?  Other distro’s are not including Mono either and in fact I think its fair to say theres a lot of bad feeling around the whole subject.  Is this the Mono “enthusiasm” they mean?  Again, I’ll let you decide.  Where will the “gift to the world” be without Novell sponsorship?

Maybe Mono should call upon Grahame Morrison (as featured in my last article) there’s no feuds on his watch.  Lets now all standby for the “paranoid” & “blight” comments as I’ve dared to speak against Mono.  Shields up (no pun intended Jo), Red Alert.

Goblin – bytes4free@googlemail.com

If you are new to this blog (or have not yet read it) please take time to view the Openbytes statement, here.

18 Comments Add yours

  1. The basic idea behind Mono, a cross platform programming environment, is a good one. That it is a clone of a Microsoft programming environment also makes sense of a sort – it would make it easier for Microsoft programmers to produce software for other operating systems.

    But then comes the problem. Who really wants to use Microsoft technology on another operating system? One reason I migrated to Linux and OSX from Windows was to get away from Microsoft’s incompetence, and a lot of other people migrated for that reason too.

    And of course Python, Perl, Java, etc. already provide the same capabilities as Mono, without the Microsoft taint.

    So Mono was destined to be a failure. At least as long as Mono continues to follow Microsoft. If the Mono team was to develop the project in their own direction, then it might have a chance to become itself. Of course Microsoft wouldn’t like that…

    1. openbytes says:

      Quote “Who really wants to use Microsoft technology on another operating system? One reason I migrated to Linux and OSX from Windows was to get away from Microsoft’s incompetence, and a lot of other people migrated for that reason too.”

      Completely agree and its a point Ive made in many articles before. Since I removed my Microsoft dependency, I have no wish to get back into one.

      Quote “At least as long as Mono continues to follow Microsoft. ”

      I don’t think Mono is a viable project unless its got its Microsoft blessing, thats part of the problem if it was adopted in the main.

      Quote “Of course Microsoft wouldn’t like that…”

      Agreed……the Microsoft ethos? “Do it our way or not at all”

      Regards
      Goblin

      1. Richard says:

        So, Goblin, if I gave you some software to evaluate, would you be able to tell whether it had a “Microsoft dependency” just by looking at the UI or using it? If not, then why should it matter to you what language some coder chose to write in?

  2. I really think that Miguel could make Mono a great success – all he’s have to do is stop trying to copy Microsoft’s directions, and go his own way. The man is intelligent, and I’ll bet that if he were to push Mono into uncharted territory, it could become one of the top ten free software projects.

    We know he’s got the intelligence too. Does he have the conjones to?

    1. Richard says:

      For what it’s worth …

      Mono features string interpolation and native tuples at the syntax level for C#, compilation to packages, and a C# REPL, among other unique features. Then there’s MonoTouch, which deserves an entire article on its own for the unique features that it has brought to the mobile space, and Mono.Addins and Mono.SIMD and Mono.Cecil. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. And still the claims about “trying to copy Microsoft’s directions”? Either you’re uninformed, or there’s nothing that’ll convince you.

      1. openbytes says:

        Richard I will take your two responses here.

        In respect of Mono dependency, no, for the average end user they would not notice. However the issues with the Mono runtime as its associated warez, the performance issues when compared like for like with native C++ code and the fact its a poorer cousin of a MS tech, all make it reasons for me to avoid. Thats forgetting the rumblings about patent issues which I haven’t even covered.

        “Either you’re uninformed, or there’s nothing that’ll convince you.”

        So Mono isn’t an implementation of a Microsoft tech which people here have already said they want to move away from. Microsoft for me (and others) has proved time and time again that WE DON’T WANT THEIR WAREZ. Microsoft can’t even be trusted to produce their own code can they? Look at the Plurk/Juku incident. With Microsoft welding the patent portfolio at Android/HTC look at the way it conquers now.

        In anycase Richard, as Ive said before, use it or don’t use it. I don’t, others may differ.

      2. Richard says:

        Performance issues? Really? Let’s go off to the programming languages shootout (shootout.alioth.debian.org), and see if there’s some merit to your claims. Hey, it looks like C#/Mono beats out Python3 for most things … and CPython … and Perl … and Ruby … which means, of course, that if you are that focused on performance, perhaps you should be going through your system and removing all of the things written in these horrible awful-performance languages.

        As for “poorer cousin” — well, if all the things I’ve mentioned don’t change your mind, then I suppose you’re just immune to the facts. If you want to move away from it because the originator is Microsoft, or because you have trust issues even after ~10 years of no problems, that’s your issue. Just don’t pretend that you’re doing it because of some technical reason.

  3. openbytes says:

    Quote “We know he’s got the intelligence too. Does he have the conjones to?”

    I’d say yes and I’d agree that a different direction from MS tech would be great for Mono, however I don’t think Novell would sponsor it and at the end of the day, isn’t that what it comes down to, money? In anycase do we really need another cross platform language/dev tool and also now that Linux is making strides on its own, why should we worry about making anything play nicely with Windows? Its not like the relationship is reciprocal?

    Regards
    Goblin.

  4. openbytes says:

    Additional:

    FTR – As Ive said time and time again, I believe Mono is a poorer cousin of an MS tech. Whatever “unique” features Mono may or may not have either now or in the future, it’s base is soley that of a Linux implementation of a MS tech. – You can’t change that.

    1. Richard says:

      Oh, you believe that it is the poorer cousin. Well, your belief completely trounces all the facts and evidence, I’m sure. And no matter what features Mono may or may not have, now or in the future, it still gets to be the “poorer cousin”?

      That’s a wonderful admission of your prejudice, straight from the horse’s mouth. I couldn’t have put it better myself.

      1. openbytes says:

        Yes I believe Richard. Unlike you I present my views as my opinion……

        Everytime you come here, everytime you get shot down, yet you still read Openbytes? Thanks for the endorsment.

        And whilst you are it, why not put words in my mouth too?….oh hang on you did that. I would not comment about a future Mono before its released, however I’m sure with all the lies you have told here (which readers can check out for themselves) this is the part where you claim(as fact) that you have a tardis and have alredy seen it.

        In response go your other (for want of a better word) text , I will respond when I get home from work. The HTC is not the best tool for posts highlighting your flaws.

        I am pleased though I still have you as a reader.

        Bless you Richard.

        Goblin.

      2. Richard says:

        Let’s see: either I’m lying, or the post I replied to does contain a follow-on sentence with the phrase “now or in the future” referring to Mono and your claim of poorer-cousinhood. Dear-oh-dear, which could it be? Which could it be?

        As for opinion, I have no need of it in this case. That’s because I have fact on my side: the performance numbers don’t lie. But, by all means, continue to present me with your mere opinions, and I’ll continue to match them up to the facts and have a few chuckles at your expense.

        (It’s almost as amusing as your mistaken belief that I get “shot down” here. Here’s a hint, Goblin: you get a traffic bump when I comment because I point out your stupidity to my peers, who come on over to have a good laugh at you. Congratulations, you’re an in-joke! With that said, here’s a shout-out to Karen, who didn’t believe that you’d have the chutzpah to reply😉 … it’s as I told you, lass, he just can’t help himself!)

    2. Quote “We know he’s got the intelligence too. Does he have the conjones to?”

      I’d say yes and I’d agree that a different direction from MS tech would be great for Mono, however I don’t think Novell would sponsor it and at the end of the day, isn’t that what it comes down to, money? In anycase do we really need another cross platform language/dev tool and also now that Linux is making strides on its own, why should we worry about making anything play nicely with Windows? Its not like the relationship is reciprocal?

      May 18, 2010

      Additional:

      FTR – As Ive said time and time again, I believe Mono is a poorer cousin of an MS tech. Whatever “unique” features Mono may or may not have either now or in the future, it’s base is soley that of a Linux implementation of a MS tech. – You can’t change that.

      It’s a copy or clone of MS tech at present. It doesn’t always have to be. As I said, it’s all about Miguel. He’s the leader, he makes the choices. If he has the guts to move forward on his own, instead of trying to copy/clone Microsoft technology, well, he’s proven in the past that he has the imagination to upset the universe.

      And I really wish Miguel would get off his fat ass and do this. I can see some paths that he could take that would have some really interesting impacts, both on Free Software and on Proprietary Software.

      1. Richard says:

        Hatter, which paths? It might be that they’re being taken, but you haven’t followed the development closely enough to notice. Let me know, you might be surprised.

      2. Quote “Hatter, which paths? It might be that they’re being taken, but you haven’t followed the development closely enough to notice. Let me know, you might be surprised.”Unquote

        Since I have no reason to believe that you really know anything about the direction of Mono, why would I bother? Miguel already knows my opinion, knows why I hold that opinion, and knows where to reach me if he wants to.

  5. openbytes says:

    And Richards off again…..

    I don’t believe Mono will ever remove itself from its basis of being a MS tech implimentation of .net, if it did, it wouldn’t be Mono it would be something else.

    “…to the facts and have a few chuckles at your expense.”

    Yes Richard, so at a most basic level if I wanted say Tomboy within my distro…whats the Mono footprint eh? Richard, how about a C++ routine to a C#? Of course Richard, everyone who’s ever mentioned performance issues of Mono (including Mainstream sites) are liars. Thats why every dev is taking the chance to adopt it……oh hang on they are not are they?

    If Mono is so great, why are the devs not flocking to it? Where are the “must have apps” or even the apps that people rave about? Truth is Richard, distro’s don’t seem to be really going for it do they? Even F-Spot couldn’t keep itself on Ubuntu….but as Ive always said, use it, don’t use it. I have no issue either way since its no longer relevant in the main.

    Quote “Here’s a hint, Goblin: you get a traffic bump when I comment because I point out your stupidity to my peers”

    Firstly, the most popular posts are the ones that you haven’t actually commented on. Secondly (as Ive asked you before, with a 1000 reader a day average why is it only you who is doing this pointing out which apparently is sooooo obvious? lol. Richard after you were surprised about a blog being my opinion (or believe) I can quite imagine you think yourself of any significance.

    Maybe Richard if you link to your blog? What about somthing you’ve done? You’ve been visiting here a long while yet you don’t seem to have achieved anything. Have you done anything Richard?

    The reason why I shoot you down everytime is that your claims, implication and allegations are lies and can be checked. If people want to disagree over Mono (or anything else) they are more than welcome, but do I have to highlight what you do to go that “extra mile”.

    Please though Richard if you want me to screen dump stats of the most popular articles just ask.

    As I say Richard, bless you. According to you out of all the readers here its only you who points out the flaws….

    Keep trying Richard, I suppose its all you can do.

    Richard, as Ive said I release my stats. Why not stop posting and see if that changes? and maybe you could answer (if I am so wrong) why sites like Tuxmachines link to most of my articles?

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