You know you have made it when………pt3

So here is the second email that was sent (both were received whilst I was at work)

Um, I forgot something and I just realized it after I started
correcting the post.
The “went trolling Neowin” bit of course. If your assessment of
whatever it was being posted on that site that in your estimation was
“wrong”, where did you get the idea that it was your duty to point
that out to them, and how is that different to someone trying to
correct something on BN and promptly being accused of “shilling” and
“astroturfing”?
Further, the whole sequence (dully parroted by Schestowitz of course)
reads like nothing more than an elaborate troll, including your glee
at interacting with the guy’s girlfriend.
Seems to me that if someone had done this very thing to some FOSS blog
you would be one of the first people to condemn it. Further, to echo
your accusations of me being a “liar”, I put it to you that you acted
like an agitator, trying to impress someone else with your
“investigations” and thinly veiled insults to get some linkage back to
your blog.
But that’s just me.
Cheers.
Um, I forgot something and I just realized it after I started
correcting the post.
The “went trolling Neowin” bit of course. If your assessment of
whatever it was being posted on that site that in your estimation was
“wrong”, where did you get the idea that it was your duty to point
that out to them, and how is that different to someone trying to
correct something on BN and promptly being accused of “shilling” and
“astroturfing”?

Further, the whole sequence (dully parroted by Schestowitz of course)
reads like nothing more than an elaborate troll, including your glee
at interacting with the guy’s girlfriend.

Seems to me that if someone had done this very thing to some FOSS blog
you would be one of the first people to condemn it. Further, to echo
your accusations of me being a “liar”, I put it to you that you acted
like an agitator, trying to impress someone else with your
“investigations” and thinly veiled insults to get some linkage back to
your blog.

But that’s just me.

Cheers.

So there we go.  Let me answer a few points.  Did I take glee? Yes! Why? Because a site (NeoWin) that wants to be taken as a serious and professional site acted in a way (with inappropriate language and behaviour) towards me (in respect of certain reporters there), merely because I challenged what they said.  If that was not bad enough a reporters girlfriend then made an appearance on my blog with “alot of attitude and not much argument” so yes, glee was definitely the order of the day.  I would maybe expect a blogger about 16 years of age to act like this, but a site with advertisers that wants to be taken seriously?  I don’t think so.  I didn’t see Joe Wilcox act this way on Microsoft Watch.

Talking of which, would you like me to quote how I challenged the reporter in question?  If readers want to check that article and series of events they can.  I don’t believe I did anything other than dispute their “facts” and in return was subjected to a soap opera on my blog.   Having said that, from the hits and emails received it was a source of merriment for many and a different type of way to present an IT opinion.

You say about my opinions if it had happened to a FOSS blog.  It does my friend, it happens here it happens on many blogs and it certainly happens in comp.os.linux.advocacy.    One thing I don’t do is get my wife to come on and make a complete fool of herself whilst trying to present my blog as something which should be taken seriously.  Thats just me though.

On both emails you mention www.boycottnovell.com and Roy.  I ask why?  I asked you to defend your (IMO) libelous remarks about me.  I am responsible for my own actions and I alone will justify them.  If Roy or anyone else who I believe you have libeled on your “blog” want to respond to you that is their business, I would not seek to answer for them.

I would ask you to consider researching me and the dates I posted VERY carefully.  Did I serve as an agitator? well I suppose in relation to FUD yes, but then that’s good isn’t it?  Isn’t informed choice based on many different viewpoints?  Talking of agitators, should we mention the recent actions of a Microsoft advocate when they attempted to convince another user to wear a “Im a PC” tshirt and walk into an Apple store?

As I say my ethos is freedom of choice through informed decision.  I would no more expect people to take my word for anything than I would yours, as I repeatedly say, readers should do their own research and come to their own conclusions.

I repeat again since you have conveniently ignored it.  What about my challenging of Optionetics? If you wish to believe I act as an agitator then I would hope you agree it is worthwhile.  In that case I exposed someone fraudulently using the name of a legitimate company (a trading education firm) and was posting comments promoting Microsoft stock.   I received a thank you from the company concerned and they got their name back.

Maybe in your world everyone should keep quiet when faced with something they have an honest held belief in that its wrong.  Maybe we shouldn’t (in your world) stand up to the vulgar comments of posters who appear when an alternative to Microsoft is mentioned in a forum.  Maybe in your world, not in mine.

Whilst you are making your agitator and witch-hunt claims, maybe you could explain why when Microsoft employee’s have posted here I have shown them courtesy?  I won’t ask you again to post evidence (you didn’t before and we all know why) I won’t ask you to respond (although you are welcome to do so)

I will end on this note, its often asked of me if I believe that there are those posting on the net paid for by certain proprietary companies.  My answer is, it doesn’t matter, misleading information is misleading whatever the intention/source.  There are people such as the FTC who are looking into this, all I can do is document and evidence my experiences and let them draw their own conclusions.   I am coming to the end of a lengthy report on this whole subject.  Once it has been submitted I will be releasing it here for everyone else to read.

Regardless of if the author of that “blog” comments again, I feel I have put my point across.  The comments section are open should you wish to and I will try to respond as quickly as I can.

Now moving on to more interesting topics, I have two distro reviews to release.  Mepis 8 being one and Zenwalk-6 Gnome being the other.  On top of this I have a test of the latest build of Wine and really run it through the mill with some demoscene titles that have some nasty little coding hacks in them.  There will also be coverage of the latest build of Chromium and also a little bit more on the Openbytes podcast coming your way.

Oh and don’t forget Openbytes is 1 year old on the 8th August!

Goblin – bytes4free@googlemail.com

13 Comments Add yours

  1. Chips B Malroy says:

    Goblin,
    I believe Neowin is the site I used about five years ago for information to slipstream my XP disk with SP2, add hotfixes to the current date, make an attended and unattended cd as well. Could be wrong, but thinking its was this site. If it was, there was a lot of knownledgable people there as well as fanboi’s, and of course, the Andre types, that monitor these sites. Funny, I worked and worked to get those slipstream disks working, burned a lot of coasters with Nero in XP back then, spent about 3 days learning how to do it. But I still got those disks, and they are so much nicer than the orginal XP disk that MS put out. Ryan was the guy that released the hotfixes to be slipstreamed, I believe, if this was the site, and I think it was. I still use those slipstream XP disks, to install inside of Virtualbox, but the funny thing is, its been a long long time now, since I ran XP in Virtualbox, or anywhere.

    Humor me here Goblin, it old folks time remiencing. Maybe 3 years ago I decided that usb was not working great in one of the Linux distro’s I was using. But it worked in others that I did not want to use. So I wanted to roll my own kernel back then and replace it, since I had the idea that might fix the usb problem. It turned out to be a 3 day project, just like slipstreaming, I learned a lot. The kernel worked too, except for the mouse, and many errors, but did work. The usb was the same, so I did not go back and perfect it (spend more time on it). Now, swapping out kernels is so easy these days in that same linux distro. Somebody, smarter than I, just posts one, that already works well, newer, on the Distro’s community forum. I right click, download, finish the download, right click on the file, kpackage comes up asks if I want to install, yes. With a kernel, you have to reboot afterwards. Its that simple, but slipstreaming a Service Pack in Windows, most likely, has not improved to this level. It would most likely still be a 3 day experience.

    Its hard for an old guy to remember if Neowin was this site of great windows knowledge, but I think it was. Do they have there share of fans, most certainly. I was impressed as you were, that they had a linux forum now. Sign of the times, when Neowin has that. But then so does Majorgeeks, and Criagslist. Linux is everywhere. But back to the subject, the fanboi’s, trolls, and shills of MS, some are: take your pick, most sites have a combination. Tom’s Hardware, I believe (won’t swear to it) was bought by the Borg, many sites are. As far as the amount of Pirates on Neowin, well, thats going be a commonplace feature of windows users. Hey, its cost too much for many people who built their own computers to save a buck, and get the computer they want. Windows, is terribly overprized. Its one of the reasons I moved to GNU/Linux, so I would not become a pirate. But hey, (MS) pirates at least are not those who I would look down on by any means, just it not what I do.

    You going find the real (ms) shills more on the sites with the MS news. Its sad that we cannot be polite in our conversations about operating systems. In my many talks with you on MS Watch, I was impressed with how even insulted beyond belief, how you calmly held back and responded, as if nothing had happened. Also for you talent with spell checking and grammar, which is not my strong point either. As you know, I cannot do that nowhere as well or as long. For that I greatly respect you. Sorry for rambling on for so long.

    Reqards Chips

  2. openbytes says:

    Thanks for a comprehensive post.

    I thought the Neowin site experience was in the past. In respect of our “blogger” it was very strange that the only piece of “evidence” he/she gave if you will was a Neowin reporter challenge from months ago.

    The whole thing is and was documented there was nothing to hide and out of all the challenges of incorrect info, I think the Neowin site had to be the most minor of the lot.

    Now that the FTC is getting involved in the issue of “gifting” and firms are suffering loss of profit due to the recession it will be interesting to see how many rave reviews of proprietary work when the “Genie” stops granting wishes.

    Its a shame though, with people acting in this way, its now cast doubt (IMO) on anyone with positive comments on proprietary software.

    Looking at Microsoft for a moment in respect of Twitter, check out how many official twitter accounts it has. Is this what Twitter was intended for?

  3. Chips B Malroy says:

    You think, hehe,
    As always you should have been a diplomat, you missed your calling. You ar very good.

    I do not fault you for that BTW. Only a small difference in opinion here. Its ok to be an advocate, in my opinion. how many times must I say that to the GNU/Linux Distro’s? And to others.

    I ADVOCATE! Period. And I am proud of it! Does that mean I hate Microsoft?

    Big question here. To some extent its true. Microsoft has done lots of things to be “hated” for.

    My posts, on MS Watch were to try to change the way MS did things for users. You know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I was not out to try to destroy MS, but to save it. At least at first. I was their biggest Fan, Sad to admit. Before I learned that MS only cared about the bottom line.. and then they sent their Shills after me. Really, I was an XP advocate, although I always liked the alternatives and tried them. But still I was a Window user. At first I wanted to help the Borg, but the Borg, does not want input, it only wants to control That is the lession everyone must learn. I don’t care what OS you use, learn it. But I will tell you that the hardest to protect on the internet is Windows. In fact, it can never be protected as most others, by default. You almost need to be a rocket scientist to protect windows to anything almost near, but still not close to Mac of better Linux on the internet.

    If you advocate, most likely you are an MS Hater. If you say anything bad about MS, Mono, Novell, SCO, or Walt Disney World, most likely you are a MS Hater. Linus is a great man that will go down in history, I am nothing. He is right more than he is wrong, but he is very wrong this time. Even I who am nothing know this. The question is, can someone, who is nothing, change for the better, for users, the choice of operating systems, so that will can once again enjoy our internet experience. I hope to continue to try. Dispite the L guy.

  4. Chips B Malroy says:

    The plain simple truth, what I learned was, no matter how hard you tried to show windows users ways to protect their computers, it still became infected. Linus and Mac did not. So why not advocate GNU/Linux? Its FREE, as in more than just Free.

  5. openbytes says:

    Very true.

    I would hope that I am seen to champion GOOD software, the fact that it’s FOSS (and free) is a moot point to me and as I’ve said before I would consider my distro of choice value for money if I had to pay for it.

    I think Firefox has shown that free is not inferior, I think Open Office, Abiword, Wine, Klibido etc etc all show this too. Thats not to say theres no room for proprietary (Crayon Physics springs to mind) and Borlands Delphi too.

    I think it comes down to being “fit for purpose” with price being a an added bonus if the package you choose is free.

    My opinion on Microsoft, Mono, Linus etc is this, at the present time, donated code or not Microsoft cannot affect our day to day use of the platform we love and champion. Should this change in the future then I think it can be reassessed although with the huge profits Microsoft requires to keep itself afloat, I’d suggest that even if there was some masterplan in respect of Linux, they would go broke before they could make a return on it.

    Thats not to say Linux is viewed by many as an “enemy” and I’m sure many would like Linux and the FOSS ethos to disappear off the face of the planet….

    I personally think that eventually we will have a standard platform, I believe that standard will be open source in nature, I believe that with piracy, high production costs and FOSS, proprietary is going to have an ever increasing problem surviving. I think the future of proprietary will be with custom software for enterprise and I also think the gaming industry with its massive production budgets will remain proprietary possibly with a vasty different sales model to the one it has today.

    Google IMO has shown with its ideas on its own OS, that there is a market, demand and interest in a new platform…Google I don’t believe is the type of company that would do things on a whim and I think Google must have a very good feeling about releasing its own OS. Time will tell.

    I think because of Vista much depends on 7. If 7 is released and there are issues/problems then that will be the nail in the coffin for the Windows platform (IMO) If it doesn’t, just like with Firefox et al we will see a gradual migration away from Windows with word of mouth and honest held belief being a powerful advertising tool.

  6. darryl says:

    You might as well continue to attack MS, and try to tell everyone how bad it is. The ONLY people you are hurting is your own community.

    Yes, the FOSS community, they in general look like a bunch of bitter and twisted kids who are never satisified.

    It does not matter that other FOSS companies also have proprietary code and product, it does not matter that FOSS simply does not have to products or services that people are willing to pay for.

    As for the FTC, they are well aware of Roy and his adjenda of hatred and venom, The FTC has been given Roy’s (BNs) details. Links to some of the more “manufactured facts” from ROY.

    And its not like the FOSS kids dont also give away product for free to gain market share. Their whole model is based on anti-competative tactics, like bait and switch, and price fixing. If FOSS linux were ever to create a product of value and gain some market share, it would stand a strong risk of coming under the FTC’s eyes itself for it’s questionable buiness methods.

  7. openbytes says:

    Quote “You might as well continue to attack MS, and try to tell everyone how bad it is. The ONLY people you are hurting is your own community.”

    A common insult or accusation. May I ask what I have said about Microsoft which is untrue? May I ask where I have “attacked” Microsoft? Please quote me or retract.

    Quote “Yes, the FOSS community, they in general look like a bunch of bitter and twisted kids who are never satisified.”

    How? What about Windows users who choose FOSS alternatives? OpenOffice and Firefox spring to mind here. Are they bitter? and what pray tell am I bitter about? FOSS is free so its not as if I have spend money on alternatives to Microsoft products.

    Quote “it does not matter that other FOSS companies also have proprietary code and product, ”

    Completely agree and if you had read my blog you will see I support value for money and fit for purpose proprietary. I have openly said there is a need for proprietary software and I’ve also openly said (on numerous occassions) that I don’t want mass migration to Linux as a platform I would rather see an equal balance between all.

    Quote “it does not matter that FOSS simply does not have to products or services that people are willing to pay for.”

    I think you are getting yourself a little confused. FOSS stands for Free and Open Source Software, by definition you don’t pay for it….and if you care to look back just one article you will see that I openly state that if my distro of choice was proprietary, I’d happily pay. Please read my opinions and understand the concepts you are talking about lest you look a little silly.

    Quote “As for the FTC, they are well aware of Roy and his agenda of hatred and venom, The FTC has been given Roy’s (BNs) details. Links to some of the more “manufactured facts” from ROY.”

    Why do all these comments always seem to come back to Roy? His opinions and actions he justifies himself. I do the same for mine. Myself and Roy have no connection other than having online (and publicly logged) discussions, our opinions on many topics are vastly different and if you have issue with what Roy does, I suggest to speak to him and not post here.

    As I always say I stand by what I say, I wonder what the FTC will make of my report? – It matters not since the report was initially created so that I could keep tabs on what people were saying, had said and where they posted. It helped considerably when I was dealing with people who liked to be vulgar under many different handles.

    Quote “And its not like the FOSS kids dont also give away product for free to gain market share. ”

    LOL. Thats probably the most silly comment I have ever read. FOSS projects are mostly community based, individuals/companies can make money from FOSS and if that was deemed anti-competative then the companies concerned would have to explain themselves…Youre little argument could be applied to anything and is completely unworkable. What about doorstep charity collectors? Could that be deemed anti-competative by another charity?

    Theres no price fixing issue or even relevance in something that is free. People do not have to buy support for Linux and I’d probably say the vast majority of users rely on forums/books for any help they need.

    Quote “If FOSS linux were ever to create a product of value and gain some market share”

    It does and it has. Why else would Microsoft want to donate code to it? If its usage was so small there would be little point. If you look over on comp.os.linux.advocacy you will see some interesting stats on Linux in the computing press and I would encourage you to look at your local newsagents and see how much coverage Linux and FOSS are recieving.

    Since your entire argument IMO is based on a misunderstanding of the FTC, I will say this, if as an independent user currently using Wolvix I decide to give out free disks of it and champion it on any forum I can, the FTC is not interested. I am acting on my own with an honest held belief.

    I believe the FTC are interested when a blogger or writer is getting “gifted” or rewarded, since it could be argued that any writer getting benefits from one company could have a bias towards them.

    I find it funny if (as you imply) the FTC has been “warned” by someone about Roy….if Roy is so wrong then surely it would be obvious to the FTC since I believe they would have at least one or two employees who knew their subject.

    Anyway, I hope you’ve read and digested what I’ve said, if you want to comment again you are more than welcome, however do not misrepresent me, do not imply connection or collaboration of any community and hold me accountable for my own words not anyone elses.

    I would also like to see some evidence me of acting or posting in the way you have implied. I doubt you will return (they never do) but how about someone (anyone) post some evidence of my actions which support the implications made about me.

    I live in hope someone will try.

    Goblin.

  8. openbytes says:

    and whilst still on the subject of the site that prompted these posts, let me clear something up. It lists Goblin[RFD] as an alias of mine (hardly an alias since I keep the Goblin name) however, RFD stands for Real Free Dude and I used it when I found the “Goblin” handle had already been registered on freenode.

    It was only used for a short period until I decided to keep it simple I would just put an underscore in front of my handle, hence I now chat on freenode as “_goblin”

    Pretty weak “evidence”…I still challenge that site to come up with anything better.

    BTW WordPress is showing 2 hits on this blog coming from that “blog”….so maybe they are in need of a few of my readers….

    I ask the creator of that blog (who I know will be reading this) Would you like me to link your site and get you some readers?

    Regards
    Goblin. or Goblin[RFD] whichever you prefer.

  9. Chips B Malroy says:

    darryl says:
    “You might as well continue to attack MS, and try to tell everyone how bad it is. The ONLY people you are hurting is your own community.

    Yes, the FOSS community, they in general look like a bunch of bitter and twisted kids who are never satisified.”
    ———————————————————-
    Let me translate your arguement for you here and boil it down to one sentance: Please don’t say anything bad about Microsoft, even if it is the truth.

    Now where I have heard that agrument before? Ah, now I remember, The Foss Lumpy guy, who attacked RMS for the most minor of reasons, who most likely never coded any GNU software, but blames others for not, and got all sorts of titles by way of being appointed by the company he works for. Lumpy was paid for his Foss advocatcy and coding for Apple (he still uses a Mac) at every turn. Ubertroll Lumpy liked to use that “FOSS” word too, so how many times did you use that word Foss in your comment? Then there were Lumpy’s buddies, Moshe (Gary Flatfish troll) and the Linsux crowd (most likely funded by MS) who used the same argument as darryl. Not that darryl is or has to be, one of these, he could just be a member of some community, just not sure which one.

    But the giveaway for you, was your hatred of Roy. So you see your Rodney Dangerfield “why cannot we all get along” argument is not going fly.

  10. Chips B Malroy says:

    GNU/Linux is growing on the desktop. Despite the attack of trolls and shills, it continues to grow. Net Applications cannot get the figures correct. But here is the figures from Steve Ballmer and Microsoft themselves, shown in a slide, that clearly show Linux with up to several percentage more than Mac.

    People do not seem to understand that the Linux users have to come from somewhere. They have to come from Windows users. So is it wrong to talk about the problems of Microsoft Windows and its other software? Not if one is truthful, is my reply. Windows is not going away, it will continue is my belief. There will be 20 to 30% of Windows users that are so set in their ways, that they will never move or try anything else, and that is fine. They have that choice, and I have my choice to write and try to educate those that wait to read my comments.

  11. Chips B Malroy says:

    Sorry I forgot the link to the Ballmer slide, showing Linux at somewhere between 7 to 10%, its a guess, but if you figure Mac at 5%.

    http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple

  12. openbytes says:

    Thanks for that link…I wonder what the MS faithful will respond with when even their leader appears to dispute their 1%..

  13. openbytes says:

    So I think thats enough time to say that the creator of the “blog” in question isn’t going to provide any evidence.

    On the subject though of “where did you get the idea that it was your duty to point that out to them” I think that would be obvious….it was my view/opinion.

    Does this blogger believe that the point of comments is merely to agree with the original poster? Obviously he does…..in his world he probably believes there should only be one opinion. I’ll let you guess which opinion that is.

    He mentioned BN again and I will repeat, this is Openbytes not Boycottnovell. What you do over on BN and what issues you wish to take up with Roy belong over there not here…just as I wouldnt expect you to have a conversation about me and my blog on BN….common sense really.

    I think we can now close the book on this bloggers ideas, its simply a waste of my time and he will never post any evidence, because he hasn’t got any.

    Case closed.

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