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Bing only gets 3% after all Microsoft’s effort?

If you ever wondered what planet Steve Ballmer (CEO of Microsoft) was on, he may have given a small insight. "...we Bing we Bing we Bing we Bing Bing Bing all the time, at least in my world " at the CES this week. I wonder, has Steve Ballmer "Bing" taking medication? ;)

Bing (dictionary definition – a heap, a pile) is allegedly not doing as well as Microsoft would want you believe.  We see Microsoft on a regular basis claiming to be the innovator of products people want to use (IMO), but when you actually look in further detail, the story, in my opinion is very different.

I gave my views on Bing quite a while ago on this blog.  Despite what people may like you to believe about this blog I was hardly critical of the product, noting that the main problem Bing had was getting past the household name of Google which has almost become part of our vocabulary.

When talking about Linux market share, many Microsoft advocates have claimed the traditional 1%, for many years. Despite what the figure actually is, I think we can all agree that now more than ever people are talking about and using alternatives to Microsoft products and if, the 1% figure was correct a few years ago, IMO its certainly not correct now.

Anyway, this article is about Bing, but the point is, if, as the Microsoft advocates claim, a low market share is indicative of a poor product, then Bing is doomed (IMO).  Why? Im about to make that point.

Netapps have released figures on market share of search engines, which they released in December 2009.  In my opinion the figures do not make good reading for Microsoft.  I’ve read allegations that Netapps favors Microsoft and if that is true then Bing really does have problems.

The figures have Google  at 85.34% and Bing at 3.27% – not, in my opinion the success story that Ive read from Microsoft sources regarding Bing.  The report can be found here.

At the CES this week, Steve Ballmer has this to say about Bing:

More than ever we are delivering the experiences that people want…..

Well if Netapps are accurate, then its at best what 3% of people want. If people were waiting for some of his trademark behavior on stage at the CES this week, then he didn’t disappoint since its reported that he went on to say:

And of course we Bing we Bing we Bing we Bing Bing Bing all the time, at least in my world

Yes Stevie, of course you do.  I don’t think I want to be visiting that world anytime soon.

We only have to cast our minds back a short while to earlier in 2009 when allegations were abound that IE6 was changing the default search engine to Bing without the users consent.  You can read an article about that here and here. What was interesting at the time were some of the comments by users (which can be found on the linked articles):

Well for me it was when I upgraded to IE 8. It keeps defaulting back to the bing home page even after I change it to google. It changes back when I reboot. So there is someting else going on here!

and also

I’m using IE7 and it’s doing the same thing, I even chose an option in Google to not allow other search engines to change my default and to notify me when it happens. Bing is still taking over and putting itself as my default search engine.  I don’t think it’s a \bug\ at all, I’m so angry!

But regardless of which IE version was experiencing it and how, Microsoft released this:

We’re aware of the issue with IE6 and Bing and are investigating a solution. This issue is not impacting IE7 or IE8 users. We respect user choice on search providers in IE and all browsers, and designed IE to enable that choice. We will provide an update soon on this issue, and we apologize for any inconvenience it has caused. In the meantime, we encourage customers to upgrade to IE8 here. Alternatively, Firefox users can install the add-in for Bing here.

Right, so it was a bug? In my opinion a rather convenient one.  Putting that aside though, take a look at the press release.  Microsoft are acknowledging the issue (that being IE switching to Bing), they apologize for “inconvenience” and then they give a link to not only IE8 (which if you remember Microsoft offered to donate food to the hungry in order for you to download it) and a link to a Firefox plug in for Bing.

Maybe Ive missed something?  If people were inconvienienced by Bing, why on earth would they offer a plug in for it for Firefox? “We’re sorry about Bing, nevermind heres a plug-in for Firefox“? ;)

Moving to the middle of 2009, there are again, allegations abound.  This time about Bing censorship:

Bings Blatant Censorship in Germany

Is Bing Censoring Questions about Microsoft?

Claims that Bing Censored Chinese Results

Bing and Yahoo Censor Indian Search Results – Disgrace

Theres many more articles on the subject.  When all this is looked at together it maybe explains why Bing is only on 3% of share, although if you consider the “extra hits” Bing would have received from the “unfortunate bug” and consider that people would probably have tried Bing out of curiosity, it makes the 3% figure it has now even more dire (IMO)

So whats users verdict on Bing?

Here are a few taken from http://www.fluther.com/disc/46570/what-is-your-opinion-of-bingcom/

I gave it a try but I would not use it.

So I take it they were not impressed?  How about this user?:

I checked it out. It doesn’t look like there’s anything special about it.

Next chap (presumably a Google user) had this to say:

It brings nothing new to the table, besides the interface, which isnt to appealing I might add. Why use it when Google WILL satisfy your every desire.

and the comments go on:

I’ve been trying out bing today; not very impressed.

and

Don’t like it that much. I get way better results with Google.

I’ll stop there, you get the general idea.  Of course we also had the issues with bugs on the Bing Iphone app and I wrote about those here.

Conclusions

So now I hope you see the point of this article and in my opinion a typical example of Microsoft’s PR v Real life.  The story (IMO) is somewhat different to Steve Ballmer’s comment of “delivering the experiences that people want” unless what they wanted was censorship and their default search engine changed.

I will leave you with these questions, is Bing another example of Microsoft trying to be jack of all trades in area’s where others have the upper hand? Is Microsoft fighting a war it can’t win on too many fronts?

I’ll leave you to decide.

Goblin – bytes4free@googlemail.com

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About Tim Sparrow

Online tech writer, novelist/author of sci-fi literature and co-host of the TechBytes Show! I believe in multi-culturism & diversity. Luton Town FC supporter.

Discussion

28 thoughts on “Bing only gets 3% after all Microsoft’s effort?

  1. “Anyway, this article is about Bing, but the point is, if, as the Microsoft advocates claim, a low market share is indicative of a poor product, then Bing is doomed (IMO). Why? Im about to make that point.”

    Well, I do not know about what you say about Microsoft advocates in general, but I have constantly discussed the market potential of desktop Linux without much comment on whether it is a technically good or technically poor product. That is likely to be irrelevant.

    You totally miss the essence of technical product marketing though. You sneer at Microsoft’s promotional efforts and quote meaningless anecdotes of others that are equally non-reflective of the situation.

    Search engines, like client OS before them, have become non-interesting as emerging products in the information environment. No one is going to budge Google’s share of that market in any meaningful way just as no one is going to budge Microsoft’s market in the desktop OS arena or in the office automation area either. It cannot be done.

    Read up on the Boston Consulting Group’s product positioning matrix at http://www.netmba.com/strategy/matrix/bcg/

    Consider that Bing and its predecessors are pretty much classic “Dog” category products that, to unsophisticated eyes such as yours, appear to be among life’s losers, but, as the article cited alludes to near its end, “a business unit that is a dog may be helping other business units gain a competitive edge”. A professor I had at MSU’s Eli Broad College of Business was more colorful in pointing out that a dog was useful for barking at intruders into your home (business area) and threatening to bite them if they came in further.

    Consider that in the light of Google’s rather lame efforts to promote SASS initiatives into office automation and even OS. What we have are two giant homeowners setting a variety of barking dogs out to warn off any direct invasion of home turf. This is a classic marketing chess move, not something that has any real meaning on the commercial stage.

    You need to broaden your understanding, then you wouldn’t waste your time and appear so petulant.

    Posted by amicus_curious | January 9, 2010, 4:44 pm
  2. ah glad to see that this is a copy of the NG post (or vice versa) I will return the courtesy and put a copy of the COLA reply I made. For the information of other readers this was posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy which is why it invites people to read this blog.

    As soon as I saw the handle I knew it would be negative. Perhaps COLA readers would like to go and see my comments sections where you typed before you thought then simply disappeared when backed into a corner. I can quote them here if you prefer.

    Lets look at what you claim:

    Quote “but I have constantly discussed the market potential of desktop”
    This may come as a shock, but the article was nothing to do with you…if you can stand to hear that read on.

    Quote “and quote meaningless anecdotes”

    Is that one? I quote what people are saying. If you think peoples opinion is meaningless, thats for you to justify not me.

    Quote “No one is going to budge Google’s share of that market”

    and thats the whole point. Who is Microsoft talking to when they suggest otherwise with their marketing campaigns and endless promotion then? Force it down peoples throats enough and you’ll get the message across eventually, akin to propaganda used throughout history.

    Quote “You need to broaden your understanding, then you wouldn’t waste your time and appear so petulant”

    Thanks for your concern, as I say others can check how you repeatedly comment on my blog, have your “challenges” answered and then disappear off with your tail between your legs when backed into a corner. I don’t see anyone responding in support of your tactics or opinion and I would hazard a guess that its not me being seen as petulant due to the growing readership of my site.

    I look forward to your return on my blog. I do enjoy answering your challenges and then you failing to answer mine.

    @Everyone else:

    Please don’t take my word for it, you can visit my blog and see this person in action and make your own mind up.

    Posted by openbytes | January 9, 2010, 6:06 pm
  3. @amicus_curious:
    The barking dog analogy was just such a far reach that I think you lost everyone with it. And since you link to a M$ page, my guess is you are trying to tell us that you work for Microsoft? What other reason can there be for such a lame try at supporting Bing? No matter how much M$ Shillers try to “howl” the greatness of Bing, users will see through that, and use Google. Google is in the end, the better product by light years.

    @openbytes:
    A couple of points, while you are trying to be nice and perhaps, a bit too nice and polite on some aspects relating to the conduct of MS. However, I do not, nor never have, subject myself to that limitation. Perhaps you imply at most, about the “bug” of IE6 users being switched to Bing being a bug and not just being forced. That is your way, to imply, without being overly critical, letting the reader decide.

    My way is to just say, MS is proud of their lies, and is a habitually dishonest company. We know they did it on purpose, but have to lie about switching IE6 users to Bing as a matter of anti-trust. Which MS should be investigated for BTW. Flames can be good on some sites (MS watch for example) when you are not talking to the choir. It may make some of them mad, be it does make them think eventually.

    Bing is the zune of search engines. I say this because the Zune (also known as the brick) has never made an impact on sales, continues to fail in the market, and wastes lot of M$ money. Only the last part is good for the public. Bing, Silverlight, and all the data centers, are Sweaty Monkey Boy’s plan to conquer the internet advertising. Google and Adobe are still King, and nothing that Steve can throw against the wall (money) has made any real long term distance. Those Data Centers, some put on hold, must be a source of money down the rathole too for MS stockholders. Bing, Silverlight, the Data Centers to support them, were according to Ballmer, the future of Microsoft, since even he knew (IMO) that Windows and Office future is bleak. Nothing lasts forever.

    The XBox360, is most likely the worst consumer product of all time, by the failure rates. The fact that MS had to extend the warranty to 3 years because it is know to have be sold defective, is plain wrong! A defective product, should be fixed period. But still MS is turning out defective XBox360’s. You would have thought they would have stopped selling them, redesigned them, and sold a good line. Not only this, by only giving a 3 year warranty, MS is saying your XBox360 has only a 3 year life. What the XBox360 lesson to the American people is this: MS can turn out defective products and sell them without being sued by watchdog groups like consumers groups, or the governments. This should be a warning that this dishonest company, has too much power over the government. XBox360’s are defective for more than 3 years, they are going to break, and break just after the warranty period if you use them.

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | January 9, 2010, 6:41 pm
  4. Hi Chips!

    Quote “a bit too nice and polite on some aspects relating to the conduct of MS”

    I refuse to sink to their level and whilst on the subject coincidently I have just been called extremist by one such very person on COLA. Of course when I challenged the remark, no evidence or justification was provided and I think the general view is, if you highlight alternatives to Microsoft you are an extremist

    Regards.
    Goblin.

    Posted by openbytes | January 9, 2010, 6:54 pm
  5. @Openbytes:
    A couple of further points. Reading over my comment, it seems that I was being critical of your style of writing, but actually, my point was just that out styles differ, not that either style of writing was wrong. It was a way, I could then just state the obvious points.

    Ah, so you attack more Shill/Trolls from Cola? I notice Darryl was posting comments on one of the articles that BN novell linked to (not on BN site itself) telling everyone that he used to use Linux, but came back to Windows. LOL The Shills are just too “rich” with humor sometimes.

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | January 9, 2010, 6:56 pm
  6. typo= attack =attrack

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | January 9, 2010, 6:57 pm
  7. Its always attack the messenger of bad news for M$, because people like you, use the facts and have the facts on your side. It is very hard to argue with the facts when laid out logically. So the shills resort to “propaganda” and personal attacks. Its all they have, but extremely underhanded.

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | January 9, 2010, 7:00 pm
  8. I knew what you meant!

    The Wintrolls are very handy as they better prove the point about what lengths people go to.

    Regards
    Goblin

    Posted by openbytes | January 9, 2010, 7:03 pm
  9. The problem I see ahead for M$, is not as much the Vista debacle, but the XBox360 one. Even if you believe that Vista was worse than ME, which recently I seen articles stating that, it pales beside what XBox360 will do the M$ low reputation.

    Microsoft has effectively made a defectively engineered product that is is now a planned obsolesce product by the means of the 3 year warranty. In effect, the lifespan of this product most likely will be slightly longer than 3 years, where you cannot get it replaced anymore. I don’t know about you, but when I buy an electronic product, I expect it to outlive its usefulness, at least 12 to 15 years. Same could be said of other hardware manufacturers that are using the cheapest types of caps now on motherboards, just to save $1 to $2 in cost.

    And there is also the fact that M$ at one time replaced scratched up disks in the XBox360 (MS titles only). This is another admission, without saying so that saving a couple of dollars by not putting bumped stops is a design error. Remember the game disks cost a lot more than the console, once you get just a few of them. That is also the lock-in, as once you have the disks, and 3 years later, you are forced to buy again.

    Once people understand this, they might not look favorably upon M$ products in general. Also, M$ continues to release new XBox360’s with E74 is my understanding. Any competent leader of M$ would have made sure the problems were long ago fixed, but not Steve Ballmer.

    As long as XBox360 continue to break down past the warranty, MS will continue to lose support from the public.

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | January 9, 2010, 10:02 pm
  10. I apologize, but I couldn’t read your entire article. About midway through I got so infuriated by your constant use of “my opinion” and “IMO” that I couldn’t continue reading.

    There is no reason to repeat that same disclaimer over and over, let alone use it a single time. This is your blog. We know that everything you say is your opinion. If it’s not your opinion it’s because it’s either a fact (which is indisputable) or someone else’s opinion (which you would reference).

    Please, for the sake of readability, restrain from ever using “in my opinion” or “IMO” in your blog posts. I feel like this is a lesson that should have been learned back when writing essays in high school.

    Posted by Bothered | January 9, 2010, 11:03 pm
    • No need to apologize, Im sorry you find it uncomfortable to read.

      I actually agree with you. I do over use IMO etc and I can see why some find it uncomfortable to read.

      Unfortunately there are those who will make many fraudulent claims about this blog, the articles here and the message I am trying to put across.

      I repeatedly find myself challenging certain users who like to only quote a part of my post and then suggest that I am making the claim it is fact. Its a sad state of affairs that I have to do this. Certain sentences need the IMO on them simply because if its absent it will be quoted as is with an incorrect implication.

      I will look at maybe including a statement at the beginning, but what I also find important about the IMO is to make it clear to maybe a casual or new user that this blog is in fact my opinion. I always have the stance that people should draw their own conclusions as a result of their own research.

      Thanks for the feedback though and if you don’t mind I will quote your opinion next time a Wintroll accuses me of a campaign of hate or blog of lies. It’s often claimed that I present my blog as fact, your comment shows that whilst you have issue with my way of posting, at least its clear it is my opinion.

      Cheers.

      Goblin.

      Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 12:14 am
  11. http://kotaku.com/140811/xbox-360-sucks-power

    Sorry, I know your post was on Bing, but Bing is a total loser, nobody in their right minds is going try it anymore. While XBox360, is still a problem. And maybe that 160 watt usage is part of the overheating problems.

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | January 9, 2010, 11:18 pm
  12. I am not a friend of Microsoft. I volunteer many hours per month to install and support Linux computers in schools in San Francisco.

    Having said that, however, I am now rather grateful for Bing, because Bing actually helps Google and thus, by extension, Linux. Here’s how.

    Google is by far the most dominant search engine. Google contributes a decent amount of marketing and code to the effort to expand GNU-Linux and Linux and FOSS. Linux, GNU-Linux and FOSS all benefit from a strong (but not too strong) Google.

    Currently, one of Google’s greatest concerns is the potential for anti-trust action. With Yahoo at say 16% of market share and Bing at say 3%, that means that Google needs more competition for the sake of avoiding an anti-trust action.

    So while I don’t use Bing and don’t go out of my way to encourage others to use it, I’m glad that there are a few people here and there who are kindly helping Google avoid anti-trust action by occasionally stooping to use Bing. Someone’s gotta do it. Just glad it ain’t me.

    Christian Einfeldt,
    Producer, The Digital Tipping Point

    Posted by Christian Einfeldt | January 10, 2010, 1:05 am
    • Hi!

      I completely agree with your points. Diversity is good for the end user and its a stance that I have always had. Infact I go one step further and say that I wouldn’t like to see Linux (or any OS) with the dominance that Windows has now because I think that can make for a stale product.

      My ideal world is one of equality and interoperability with many IT techs. At the end of the day we use the products that are best for us and I don’t think there would be many FOSS advocates if the software itself wasn’t up to the job.

      The article itself was aimed more at the point “Microsoft PR v Reality” more than anything else and I don’t think Google would be any the worse off for more stiffer competition than what Bing is offering…competition keeps people on their toes and as you rightly say avoids any anti-trust action.

      Thanks for commenting!

      Kind regards
      Goblin.

      Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 1:13 am
  13. After taking on board the complaint by some of using “IMO” I have decided to simply include this link at the end of each article.

    I do have concerns for the future of citizen journalism as it continues its rise in popularity. I think in the future we will see cases where a company/individual seeks a civil recourse due a blogger writing an article without it being clear its their opinion and I would always recommend to anyone running a blog/site to make sure that personal opinion is clearly stated as such, do not assume that just because you “blog” people are with the understanding it is opinion.

    Whilst in the last day Ive had comments telling me that its obvious its my opinion, some of our regular detractors here try to claim otherwise.

    Also another tip to all bloggers/site owners, any claims/complaints or hearsay that you report should as best practice be marked as “allegations”, I think there is room within civil law to build a case against a blogger in many circumstances and that being one. Since civil law is not my area of expertise I would welcome anyone’s views with a take on this.

    With that in mind, here is my “statement”
    http://openbytes.wordpress.com/openbytes-statement/

    Regards all, heres to a blog with far fewer “IMO’s”

    Goblin.

    Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 8:33 am
  14. It’s funny, you’re happy to quote netapps when their numbers “support” you’re claims, but in the same article you reject netapps assesment of the reach of linux, which by netapps is 1.07%.

    And how long has bing been going, and how long has google been going ? For bing being a recent entry into the search market, to overtake yahoo and to gain close to 4% in a relatively short time is quite good.

    As for Linux it’s been going for the best part of 20 Years, and by YOU’RE qouted source it’s still at 1%, and not really growning very fast, if at all.

    It’s a common propaganda technique to selectively quote, but you go one step further, and use statistics from the same source to confirm you’re argument, and at the same time discredit the source because it publishes values you dont agree with.

    Selective quoting, and lying by ommision.

    I would really like one day to see when I come to these kinds of web sites some balance and honesty in reporting.

    and even mabey, some articles about FOSS/Linux and what are its strong points and benefits. It would be far better to promote you’re own cause as opposed to reverting to gutter smear techniques.

    (I know, you’ll use the immature retort “they started it”, school boy banter).

    We’ll are you not better than them or what ?

    Dont you think it would be better for FOSS people to take the high road, show some professionalism ?

    Or are you happy to come accross as a group of fanatics filled with hate and bile about anything you dont agree with.

    Mabey you should quit hanging around ROY you’re picking up his bad habbits and tendency to bend or break the truth.

    Google is not what I would call an Open Source company either, they sell advertising space, they are a marketting company.

    They dont release their crown jewles code to the public, and they leach off FOSS to cut costs.

    As for google being free, who do you think google gets it’s money from?

    Thats right YOU and me and everyone else who purchases ANY product or service.

    Advertising is a tax on every product you buy, everyday, thats why googlel is rich, it’s not because of Open Source, or any products they provide (like googlel earth).

    Those products are there to get page hits, as page hits gets them more advertising money.

    Im surprised, (well not that surprised), that you cannot grasp these simple concepts.

    Mabey you do not have that much experience in IT, or business in general. Or mabey you simply have not thought it through yet. As is indicated by how you tend to go off “half cocked”.

    Roy seems to be doing a good grooming job on you, im sure he’s very proud of his charge.

    Why anyone would put ROY as their mentor is beyond me, it’s clear ROY efforts, like you’re is having little or no effect, or if anything is simply damaging to FOSS in general.

    That is the risk you are taking, potentially doing damage to the very community you claim to support.

    Like ROY, I wonder how you would feel if you’re efforts resulted in honest working being put out of work, on social security and with their families and children going without.

    Are you so sure of yourself that you can say that you are NOT damaging sections or all of the FOSS community.

    If you turn off a SINGLE skilled developer, that damage is allready done.

    Some people just want to create good software, good applications and things people can use.
    They are not interested in propaganda or hate speach.

    Companies will consider far more carefully about moving into FOSS they will try to asses the risk of being villafied and shuned by the community.
    And may decide to go with another license or not go open at all.

    So how would that be a good thing for the progress of FOSS, and how is atacking MS going to improve the functionality and quality of FOSS’s offerings ?

    There are valid questions, and im sure you cannot answer them to satisifaction. Because you have no idea of the potential damage you could be doing.

    Im a very experienced programmer, from the embedded industry Im retired and have huge time on my hands.

    I could code for FOSS, I could bug fix, I could document or provide support.

    But I dont, and wont because of groups such as this, and BN, and RMS who seem more intent in taking away our freedoms than providing us with more freedom.

    RMS does not care about “OUR” freedom, he cares about the code’s freedom.

    GPL is a very restrictive licence and it’s difficult to build a viable business model around it, RMS does not care about that, as long as the code is free.

    So im waiting for you to devolve into religion, politics, US finance, and all the other mini wars you’re mentor ROY is branching into. ?

    It’s just dissapointing that you cannot be positive about FOSS, but must be constantly negative about MS.

    I (and lots of other people) would drop windows in a second if FOSS offered better product.

    But I need apps that work, not an idealogy or being forced into a finge sect type group.
    That does as much infighting as it does fighting all it’s percieved enemies.

    And waists a use amount of energy and effort that should be directed into creating a superior product.

    Then mabey FOSS will break the 2% value.

    Posted by darryl | January 10, 2010, 2:40 pm
  15. Quote “it’s funny, you’re happy to quote netapps when their numbers “support” you’re claims, but in the same article you reject netapps assesment of the reach of linux, which by netapps is 1.07%.”

    Er Darryl don’t comes here telling lies (again). Read the article slowly. What I said was “many Microsoft advocates have claimed the traditional 1%, for many years. ” and “Well if Netapps are accurate, then its at best what 3% of people want.”

    So I don’t even claim Netapps are correct in their Bing figures, I use the word “IF”

    In the past its been alleged that Netapp stats have a pro-MS bias, whilst I cannot confirm or deny that, what I can say is that the Netapp figures for Linux (if they do stand at 1%) are in direct conflict with what Steve Ballmer used at a presentation recently, where a slide he had represented them at around 6%.

    But like I say its not me who claims market share is an indication of the quality of the product, which is as true for Linux as it is for Bing. What I dislike about Bing is the misleading way its being pimped and the allegations of it forcing itself on users. These make for rather dubious figures regardless of what they are.

    I’ll skip over the rest of your poor attempt at some form of implication and simply ask you to read my review on Bing at the time. The only problem I identified with it was exactly what you are stating, Google has been about longer, Google has the household name. Please read that yourself.

    Quote “Advertising is a tax on every product you buy, everyday, thats why googlel is rich, it’s not because of Open Source, or any products they provide (like googlel earth).”

    I think its you who is confused young man, I have never said differently. As I have said before I am on no crusade against proprietary as I believe in some area’s we will never be able to leave its model. I support an anti-piracy stance. I think either you are getting me mixed up with someone else or its you who doesn’t understand.

    Quote “Are you so sure of yourself that you can say that you are NOT damaging sections or all of the FOSS community”

    Yes. Unless you are suggesting I am some powerful voice in the FOSS world where I have millions of people following my every word. Are you suggesting I have? Please quote me where I have posted one of these damaging posts. Funnily enough I did make an article entitle “Ah your killing FOSS” which tackled this exact topic as its often the remit of someone who can’t argue back with any evidence.

    You dare to use “immature” when its you who comes here disrupting and at the same time I have users who say I am too polite to people like yourself. I am the immature one? Shall we look back at your infantile posts?

    Quote “RMS does not care about “OUR” freedom, he cares about the code’s freedom.”

    Whats that got to do with me? Ive already said my opinions are mine alone.

    Quote “So im waiting for you to devolve into religion, politics, US finance, and all the other mini wars you’re mentor ROY is branching into. ?”

    You will be waiting a long time and the repeated lies you tell with your implication that there is any connection between myself and Roy is tiresome. I have already evidenced key area’s where myself and Roy have completely opposite opinions.

    I wish you would tackle Roy with any issues about him, I am fed up with you playing out your Roy obsession on my blog. Go to the IRC room if you have any points to put to him.

    Quote “That does as much infighting as it does fighting all it’s percieved enemies.”

    I don’t perceive this article which YOU commented on as arguing with anyone, unless you can enlighten me as to how the subject of Bing can be grossly offensive to anyone. You can here, you started fighting. Its not infighting though because I don’t believe you have any involvement in the FOSS community other than trying to disrupt it. (rather poorly I may add)

    Quote “Then mabey FOSS will break the 2% value.”

    Yes, MAYBE. or MAYBE it already has, a long time ago.
    Tell me are you confused? Are you referring to FOSS in general or Linux? If you are referring to FOSS in general then I think you will find (believe it or not) FOSS software on the Windows platform, it may be Firefox, it may be Chromium, Openoffice, AbiWord. I think you will find FOSS is significantly higher than a 2% market penetration.

    If you are referring to Linux, who knows the figure? What about web servers though? are 2% of them Linux or would that be higher?

    Kindest regards
    Goblin

    Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 6:43 pm
    • Darryl’s writing is very similar to Mutex, even including; Quote “Are you so sure of yourself that you can say that you are NOT damaging sections or all of the FOSS community”.

      Anyway, big fail: it’s desperate win-trollism.

      Posted by Andrew | January 10, 2010, 8:18 pm
      • Ive been receiving quite a bit of email about Darryl’s efforts here.

        If he continues to lie and not ask first then he can have a statement at the beginning of his comments. I don’t have the time to constantly correct his lies.

        Darryl, like a child needs supervision. I hope he can move forward and act like an adult.

        Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 9:33 pm
  16. nice spin, still does not change the FACT that you based you’re entire article on the 3.5% from netapps, so if you do that, then you have to take all their data as accurate, and I think it is accurate, and that means Linux is 1.07% market share, which is kinda bad, considering how long it’s been going for.

    I mean 17 years to 1% is a very very poor record.

    Whereas Bing in the short time it’s been here has overtaken most other search sites, except Google.

    And I agree Google is clearly the leaders in search, that is beyond dispute, but comparing Bing to google, is not a fair comparison on the success of Microsoft.

    And you well know it, or IF you dont you have little or no understanding.

    Yes, I know Linux is good for web servers, again that is beyond question, web servers are basically set and forget, they dont generally have to run many different applications.

    And if you want to compare MS Vs Linux web servers, you should also include backend systems, that are predominatly Windows.

    You also might want to look at the statistics regarding Linux web servers being breached, hacked, defaced. Which points to the true security of GNU/Linux, when there is a desire or requirement for a hacker to break into a linux system ie a web site, they have little trouble in doing so.

    So comparing one statistic, agaist different statistics does not make any logical sense, therefore you are better off not making claims that show your lack of understanding of the situation.

    Sure it’s nice to parrot ROY, and im sure you get some brownie points off him for that, but you need to consider you’re own integrity and credability.

    ROY’s is shot, do you want to be branded as a ROY BOY ?

    Do you have a single independent thought ? Or do you just react, unthinking and making illogical arguments. (no wonder you’re not a programmer).

    Posted by darryl | January 10, 2010, 8:06 pm
  17. when you post you’re “opinions” or even ROYs opinions then you are putting your opinions into the public domain, you invite comments and therefore they are no longer “you’re own” when you go to great effort to make you’re opinions ours. (the readers)

    If they were you’re own you should keep them to yourself, if you publish them as you do then invite comment. But if you dont like the comment, that’s bad luck, you’ve made you’re opinion public,

    the main problem is you’re opinions are usually wrong, and very biased. And very easily disproved or discredited.

    You would not have that problem, if you had a better understanding of what you’re trying to convince us of.

    It’s like ROY’s jonno interview, he fell apart because like you ROY has no balance or very little understanding of the real world.

    People like ROY and yourself dont mind damaging FOSS as really it’s no skin off you’re collective noses.

    ROY does not work at all, and I believe you drive a truck, (not that there is anything wrong with that) but it’s clear you’ve not worked in IT, or owned or run you’re own business.

    And it’s clear you dont have a strong grasp on facts and statistics, market analysis, software development, quality assurance.

    And it’s also clear you have no empathy regarding the potential damage the likes of ROY and his minions could and are doing to FOSS.

    Why dont you put your efforts in learning how to code and working to make FOSS better ?

    Do you think if you take out MS users wont have a choice, so linux might break the 2% level.

    Obviously you dont care if you’re efforts put people out of work, because you have no actual investment in the FOSS industry, you dont contribute and you want to destroy companies that employ people like Novell and MS, how will you feel if you put FOSS programmers out of work.

    will you be proud of yourself if Novell goes broke, and have to put off all it’s staff ?

    Removing a FOSS company that contributes alot to the kernel, or MS who employ 90,000 people, with families, kids, houses and jobs.

    OR, if you dont think you and ROY are doing any damage, then please explain why you are involved in this smear and propaganda campaign ??

    It’s either one or the other, either you’re successful and you kills jobs, companies, and put people out of work, and you’re OK with that.

    Or you are not doing any damage to FOSS, by killing Novell, or MS so I have to then ask why you are doing it.

    Do you understand the question, or would you like me to say it differently ?

    It appears you dont understand, as you (and ROY) refuse to engage, or answer that simple but important question.

    and as Dr Phil would ask, What is you’re payoff for doing this ??

    I would really like to know you’re motives for you’re actions, and what you’re payoff is for you’re hate and propaganda.

    Posted by darryl | January 10, 2010, 8:24 pm
    • Quote “or even ROYs opinions”

      I’ll stop you there. I don’t post Roy’s opinions, Ive merely said they are different to mine and if, you have issue with them then thats a matter for you and him, not me.

      Quote “then you are putting your opinions into the public domain, you invite comments and therefore they are no longer “you’re own” when you go to great effort to make you’re opinions ours”

      Well Im glad to acknowledge that I post my opinions and I’d love to see these great efforts to make my opinion yours…to me thats justifying what I say and if you notice I always balance that with “I’ll let you decide” or something similar.

      Please explain, quote or evidence what you consider “great efforts”

      Quote “If they were you’re own you should keep them to yourself,”

      Im sure, lets all keep our mouths shut and not say anything. Lets trust Apple, Sony, Microsoft and Canonical to give us the unbias facts about themselves. I post my opinions and yes I do invite comment, which puzzles me when you say:

      Quote “But if you dont like the comment, that’s bad luck, you’ve made you’re opinion public,”

      because I openly say that I welcome opposing opinion. Check back on this blog where I engage happily in debate with those with different opinions. What I don’t like is lies. Lies like you trying to claim myself and Roy are in cahoots. Lies that happen time and time again by a small number and even when proved that they are lies, theres no appology, no retraction.

      Quote “he main problem is you’re opinions are usually wrong”

      Lol. Like what? Lets start with this article. Whats incorrect? The Netapps stats, the comments other people have said?

      You still can’t help yourself lying can you? You still imply a bias when I have never stated the netapps were accurate, used a “?” in the title – to ask the question. The list goes on, so do you.

      Quote “ROY does not work at all, and I believe you drive a truck”

      What does Roy have to do with me? I drive a truck? Matters not what you think, if picturing me behind the wheel of a large vehicle pleases you then fine. I don’t mind. I refuse to mention my job. At the end of the day I could do what you do and tell lies. I could claim anything I wanted and you would not be able to disprove it. Thats why my job (since its not in IT) is irrelevant.

      Quote “And it’s also clear you have no empathy regarding the potential damage the likes of ROY and his minions could and are doing to FOSS.”

      Is it? Where? Forgetting that remark about Roy’s work (which again you have to take up with him, not me) its now moved to “potential” damage.

      I ask you again, where is the damage I have caused? Please state it and now please state where I show no empathy of anyone potentially damaging anything.

      Quote “Obviously you dont care if you’re efforts put people out of work, because you have no actual investment in the FOSS industry”

      Eh? You pop up when I correct Microsoft on their Bing stance and I am putting FOSS people out of work? I champion FOSS software (in reviews) and I put FOSS people out of work? How many people who comment are use FOSS software actually have an investment in it? I’d love to hear that.

      Maybe you consider my review of Kahel as being harmful to FOSS? – What on earth are you on about?

      Quote “will you be proud of yourself if Novell goes broke”

      No and if you care to look a little earlier in this thread you would see that I don’t want that of Microsoft either. Where are you getting this from? Where do I say I want Novell broke? You are a disgusting liar to try to imply that I have these views in order to try to cheapen me.

      Quote “if you dont think you and ROY are doing any damage, then please explain why you are involved in this smear and propaganda campaign ??”

      How am I involved? Please let me know. Please quote anything incorrect I have posted, please feel free to challenge anyone Ive quoted or Netapps stats…fill your boots.

      Quote “FOSS, by killing Novell, or MS so I have to then ask why you are doing it.”

      Are you really that slow? Again, where do I say I want Novell or MS removed? Infact the opposite, I want diversity, Ive repeatedly said that and even only a few posts earlier in this very thread. Read my opinion first. If you don’t know ask, don’t lie.

      Quote “as you (and ROY) refuse to engage, or answer that simple but important question.”

      Again, you must be slow as I have no campaign with Roy. I chat in the BN IRC room (which I believe you will find Jono Bacon also doing) and there is no conspiracy. You’ve never asked the question of me directly before and you have always fudged around with lies, implication. Since you have asked I will answer your question but I do request that if you want anything further ellaborated on, you ask instead of telling lies. It makes things quicker.

      So in answer to: “Or you are not doing any damage to FOSS, by killing Novell, or MS so I have to then ask why you are doing it.”

      Firstly I consider competition good. Diversity in software makes better products/value for the end user. I have repeatedly said on this blog that I want diversity in software solutions (in an ideal world an equal balance between all alternatives) but more importantly interoperability between those technologies. I repeat, I do not want to see mac/Linux with the market share Windows has, I would like a more balanced picture. As Ive said before as we move more towards web-based apps/solutions, the core OS is becoming less important.

      Speaking in respect of the “average user” you can already see examples of this with the OS’s on mobile phones, netbooks and the realization that the tasks which users are requiring are not the exclusive remit of one company (either FOSS or proprietary)

      So now I move on to your question “Why do you do it?” and thats a very good question. Ive answered it before on my blog, but I will repeat. In the interests of readability, I will create a separate comment on that. It will follow shortly.

      Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 9:15 pm
  18. WHY I DO WHAT I DO?
    ——————

    Firstly computing for me is a hobby. Maybe its a hobby I wouldn’t have today if my career path had taken me to an IT based job.

    I will skip my early days of Spectrum & Amiga use and skip onto PC.

    I used Microsoft products for many years. To be fair I was happy. I encountered problems but put those down to my error/ignorance. I was always under the impression that Microsoft was the only company to provide me with a viable solution. To be fair I was not particularly disapointed with Win98, I moved to XP and was quite happy.

    Out of curiousity more than anything I tried Linux (SUSE I believe) and ended up dual booting. To be fair I wasn’t that impressed and found myself booting XP far more than Linux.

    Then came Vista and all that changed. Linux have progressed leaps and bounds and after my disapointment with Vista and the improvement of Linux for the user who does not have a career in IT decided to make the switch completely.

    I had no intentions of creating a blog at first. I posted about my good experiences with Linux as I knew there were many who had been led to believe the same as me, Microsoft is the only answer. Thats when I started recieving a barrage of abuse. Not normal abuse mind you and it became obvious to me that there were many who did not like the idea of someone with a good word to say about an alternative to MS.

    I started a blog, detailing my experiences of Linux and as the abuse became progressively worse Openbytes was born.

    I do this because I enjoy writing about IT related subjects. I enjoy the feedback both here and via email. I enjoy seeing my readerbase increase month on month and most importantly I hope that people enjoy reading my work.

    Time and time again I come across users who think a sluggish functioning OS, laden with malware and instability is norm, time and time again they are amazed with alternatives. It may be a small move as in IE to firefox or it could be a move to an entirely new OS for them.

    I understand that for some it is inconcievable that anyone would spend large chunks of their time working for free, but you have to understand that this is one of the hobbies that I enjoy doing.

    I think the FOSS model is certainly the way of the future, there are so many great projects that prove that. I think there is a place for proprietary (esp in gaming industry)

    I hope that answers your question Darryl, if you want me to elaborate on anything, instead of telling lies, why not make a list of to the point, direct questions. I’ll be more than happy to answer.

    I will say Darryl if you continue to lie and try to misrepresent with those lies, I will have to highlight you lying with a statement at the beginning of your comments. Maybe you have the time to post lie after lie, but I certainly don’t have the time to keep correcting you.

    If you want to know the answer to something, ask. Its really quite simple.

    Posted by openbytes | January 10, 2010, 9:30 pm
  19. Openbytes says (in reply to a possible winshill): “So now I move on to your question “Why do you do it?” and thats a very good question.”
    ——————————————————–
    It could be the same reason I blog, or your reason could be different than mine. But the big problem for Microsoft, is the new users for Linux, are coming from the ranks of Windows users.

    And what happens with the converts from windows to linux, is they want to talk about the positive experience of GNU/Linux compared to the malware/bug-ridden costly experience of windows that they were subjected to before. Its only human nature to try and help your fellow human being. And in this case, it means helping people to convert to a better way, GNU/Linux. In the last couple of years, I have noticed more and more people posting in support of GNU/Linux on blogs. Its not paid people posting in support of GNU/Linux, unlike the majority of those who post glowing things for Microsoft. Mostly they are Andre free laptops types, that look for the next handout from Redmond.

    This is the problem that MS now has, it doesn’t seem to want to fix the basic problems of windows, just add more eye candy and useless bloatware features that nobody wanted. The real problem of security, for example is never dealt with, with as the surfing experience in Linux is far far superior. There is simply a part of the GNU/Linux community that wants to share the good experience of switching to Linux from windows, and this is a huge problem for MS, one that in the end, they have no counter for.

    Posted by Chips B Malroy | February 1, 2010, 7:26 pm

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about.me

Tim Wilson

Tim Wilson

Writer/Novelist of many facets both in the world of technology and fantasy/sci-fi. Co-host of the TechBytes audiocast and writer for both OpenBytes and Goblin's Domain. Supporter of free and open source software.

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